152: David Kyle Johnson on Economics and Philosophy in Soylent Green
This is a 3rd instalment of my interviews with Professor David Kyle Johnson, an Associate Professor of Philosophy at King’s College in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.
We catch up again after watching the 1973 dystopian movie ‘Soylent Green‘ and discuss some economics and philosophical themes that run through the movie.
In this Episode, we cover:
- Scarcity
- Choice
- Over-population
- Consumption
- Inflation
- Production
- Automation
- Altruism
- Theft
- Black market economy
- Pricing
- Equilibrium
- The Invisible Hand
Social Issues Discussed Include:
- Social class/status,
- Feminism
- Poverty
Philosophical Questions Addressed Include:
- Should we resort to cannibalism to save the human race?
- Should we have the right to die with dignity in the face of a terminal illness, the loss of hope or over our moral principles?
- Is there a god?
- And more.
Movies:
- Soylent Green (1973) Directed by Richard Fleischer
Other Episodes to Check Out:
151: Unreleased Bonus Episode with David Kyle Johnson
Books:
- Make Room, Make Room: The Classic Novel of an Overpopulated Future by Harry Harrison
- The Population Bomb by Paul Erlich
Patreon
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Thomas Weinandy
August 13, 2018 at 2:02 amAlthough the episode brought up many good economic questions, I feel like the economic answers were rather lacking. I was disappointed that Ehrlich’s (as well as Thomas Malthus’s) theories on overpopulation were given so much credence when they have been so soundly rejected by the field of economics. The dystopian future painted by the guest did acknowledge the role of technology, but did not consider other facts like 1) the price of consumer goods trends down (strawberry jam is cheaper today than ever before), 2) famines are more government failures than ecological ones (like Venezuela) and 3) that as countries get richer demographic transition kicks in to reduce population growth.
I would suggest bringing on a guest that specializes in the economics of population and scarcity to offer insights into current understanding in this field. Although I presume you know better guests, I will still recommend as one option Paul Sabin*, author of The Bet about the public bet made against Ehrlich and the economist Julian Simon.
Side note: This is a great podcast series! I’ve been listening since 2015 and it has been a good compliment to the current economics grad program I’m in. Thanks for the great show, Frank. I can only guess the amount of work you put into this labor of love, but I deeply appreciate it. Keep up the excellent work.
*No affiliation, he just tells a very good story
Frank
August 17, 2018 at 10:42 amHi Thomas, Thanks for comments and great suggestions. I do agree with what you are saying regarding Ehrlich’s theory as well as the historical trends in inflation. I guess the interview was limited in scope and discussion as we were constrained by the dystopian future as depicted in the movie Soylent Green. But what’s great about this episode is that it creates a conversation beyond the 60 minutes, a conversation that you started here. And the points that you outlined above are credible and factual and also allows us to draw comparisons to events shown in the movie. The movie did get everything wrong about what’s going on in New York City today but that’s science fiction/Hollywood. I hope that this episode along with others that I’ve done that features or discusses economics in a dystopian future (Star Trek, The Hunger Games, Star Wars) can allow us to understand economic concepts as well as macro issues in a fun and unrestrictive way but at the same time challenge the points brought up by my guests and myself. Paul Ehlich’s alarmist arguments have come up before in a number of episodes and the guests rejected these favoring Julian Simon’s theory. I’ve been in touch with Professor Sabin and I’m hoping that he’ll agree to come on the show as I had always intended to deal with this topic. Thanks for the recommendation Thomas. Also, I’m awaiting a reply from another potential guest who will discuss the current situation in Venezuela. Thanks so much for your kind words Thomas and for being a ‘life-long’ listener of the show. You’re the Economic Rockstar here and I appreciate your continued support. If there’s anyone else that you could recommend for the show, please let me know and I’ll do my best.
P.S. Just to keep the arguments ticking over, here’s a great article by Tim Worstall “But Why Did Julian Simon Win The Paul Ehrlich Bet?” https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/01/13/but-why-did-julian-simon-win-the-paul-ehrlich-bet/#282e4b2f1b03